HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 33 minutes ago, eagle45 said: So the plan is to use Moore to get the offense back on track, then release him into the wild and turn it back over to Siri like in 2023. Seems like great foresight. What if, Moore sticks around for more than 1 year, and nothing has to change? He WAS once a hot name to elevate all the way to HC quickly but that buzz died down for now. Im not sure 1 year is all itll take to rehab his worth. What if, after a couple seasons we have a logical in house replacement? Lets see who the QB coach is. Maybe then, the turnover isnt going to be so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
we_gotta_believe Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 11 hours ago, HazletonEagle said: The actual chargers offense with Moore OC. You see how he schemes Keenan Allen open. Now he will have 2 WRs to do this stuff with. You can see a lot of the same complaints we heard here with respect to read progression being long to short instead of the other way around. Drags and crossers are wide open on some of those plays but Dak is pushing it down field because that's what Moore emphasizes. Herbert is also a far better passer than Hurts, so it should give anyone pause that they weren't more potent as an offense this year. That being said, I have a lot more faith in Moore to mix in enough counters and tendency breakers to keep defenses off balance so it should still be a clear upgrade over BJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle45 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: What if, Moore sticks around for more than 1 year, and nothing has to change? He WAS once a hot name to elevate all the way to HC quickly but that buzz died down for now. Im not sure 1 year is all itll take to rehab his worth. What if, after a couple seasons we have a logical in house replacement? Lets see who the QB coach is. Maybe then, the turnover isnt going to be so different. Brian Johnson was as logical of an in house replacement as it gets. What are the honest odds that Moore sticks around to be OC another year if/after he rescues the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 7 minutes ago, ManuManu said: Our motion rate was 27th in the league in 2022, 10.6 percent. I dont really know what to make of that. I guess it doesnt tell us much. I was hoping to see no change, or a huge change. Its a pretty small change. No question going down to 32nd place was not good, and the offense suffered in part because of it. No doubt 27th place isnt very good, yet the offense worked so damn well... What accounts for dropping 5 places? We wont know. And how much of that is the reason our offense was figured out? Cant really guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgcd3 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: What if, Moore sticks around for more than 1 year, and nothing has to change? He WAS once a hot name to elevate all the way to HC quickly but that buzz died down for now. Im not sure 1 year is all itll take to rehab his worth. What if, after a couple seasons we have a logical in house replacement? Lets see who the QB coach is. Maybe then, the turnover isnt going to be so different. Next year you'll have Slowik, LaFleur maybe even Robinson and everybodies darling Joe Brady who will be OC's who could get jobs. And there will be new names that pop up too. We've been burned by departures recently but it's definitely not a slam dunk he does well and goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastJenkins Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Moore had to be giddy with the prospect of Smitty and AJ in his offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting4Someday Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 51 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: I've seen him use Elliott as a FB as well as TEs. He uses a FB but makes due without having an actual one on the roster. I imagine we will rotate the responsibilities between Mailata, Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter, and Van Summersausage. Here are the formations for Ekeler’s first TD and big run this season of 55yds, nothing exotic (except here). He also caught 4 passes for nearly 50yds. Good Week 1 for him against the Fangio-MIA defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: I dont really know what to make of that. I guess it doesnt tell us much. I was hoping to see no change, or a huge change. Its a pretty small change. No question going down to 32nd place was not good, and the offense suffered in part because of it. No doubt 27th place isnt very good, yet the offense worked so damn well... What accounts for dropping 5 places? We wont know. And how much of that is the reason our offense was figured out? Cant really guess. I’m too lazy to do a ton of digging, but as of Dec 7 we were at 9.6 percent motion rate for 2023. So we are talking 1 less per 100 offensive snaps. I think the difference was negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: You can see a lot of the same complaints we heard here with respect to read progression being long to short instead of the other way around. Drags and crossers are wide open on some of those plays but Dak is pushing it down field because that's what Moore emphasizes. Herbert is also a far better passer than Hurts, so it should give anyone pause that they weren't more potent as an offense this year. That being said, I have a lot more faith in Moore to mix in enough counters and tendency breakers to keep defenses off balance so it should still be a clear upgrade over BJ. Im sure he involved a lot of that air Coryell stuff because its such a fit for Herbert's arm ability. Is it going to remain a big part of what he does or not? That will be the question. He also incorporates WCO stuff, and RPOs still so he may go more heavy on that stuff for Hurts instead. Air Coryell is said to utilize the run game more than air raid so all of that long stuff theoretically is set up by more runs and play action. That will help its effectiveness if we stick with it. You also need another fast WR to open up the underneath stuff. Its a lot of vertical routes, opening up intermediate and short stuff. Smith is fast. AJ Brown is probably better utilized on intermediate stuff. Hes fast enough to go deep, but hes not a field stretcher. Someone like Franklin from Oregon has DeSean Jackson speed- would be big for this offense. If Quez ever developed in to a reliable player, we would be set already. Maybe Cedric Wilson as a free agent gives us that other speed threat to make it work. But fact is we need to prioritize a 2nd speed threat in this WR corps this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgcd3 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 11 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: What if, Moore sticks around for more than 1 year, and nothing has to change? He WAS once a hot name to elevate all the way to HC quickly but that buzz died down for now. Im not sure 1 year is all itll take to rehab his worth. What if, after a couple seasons we have a logical in house replacement? Lets see who the QB coach is. Maybe then, the turnover isnt going to be so different. Doug Nussmeier is mentioned by some to be coming with him as QB coach but not confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 13 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said: this is very misleading. That is a route tree on targets only. Smith looks like he did a lot less because he was only targetd on those outside routes. Hurts has a blind spot in the middle of the field. And its only 5 targets. Allen looks like he did a lot more because he had 11 targets, and was actually targeted in the middle of the field. This DOES NOT imply that Smith doesnt run routes through the middle of the field as taters believe it does. Its more so a perfect illustration of Hurts' blind spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 8 minutes ago, eagle45 said: Brian Johnson was as logical of an in house replacement as it gets. What are the honest odds that Moore sticks around to be OC another year if/after he rescues the offense? Johnson was not logical. That was nepotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, ManuManu said: I’m too lazy to do a ton of digging, but as of Dec 7 we were at 9.6 percent motion rate for 2023. So we are talking 1 less per 100 offensive snaps. I think the difference was negligible. In that case, basically you can say Siris RPO offense got figured out. I still caveat that with the disclaimer that the offense had to be that way for Hurts. Muddy picture. Not good, but unclear which of those guys is more to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: In that case, basically you can say Siris RPO offense got figured out. I still caveat that with the disclaimer that the offense had to be that way for Hurts. Muddy picture. Not good, but unclear which of those guys is more to blame. This seems like a good synopsis. Like you said, we have to determine why it is that simple. https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2023/12/21/24010182/what-is-wrong-with-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 I do think there is a discrepancy with the motion rates and presnap motion numbers. I think the one I’m quoting is motion at the snap and others include any play with any motion, like if a player takes five steps out and then back to see if the defender followed as a man identifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wentz_Era Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 54 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said: I liked Moore a few years back. However unless he can get Hurts back in check it wont matter who the OC is. If Hurts can't get his head out of his ass, the talk will be about drafting Arch Manning in a few years. Arch should take a snap in college first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting4Someday Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 16 minutes ago, pgcd3 said: Doug Nussmeier is mentioned by some to be coming with him as QB coach but not confirmed. That would make sense as he worked with KM at DAL and followed him to SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
we_gotta_believe Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 23 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: Im sure he involved a lot of that air Coryell stuff because its such a fit for Herbert's arm ability. Is it going to remain a big part of what he does or not? That will be the question. He also incorporates WCO stuff, and RPOs still so he may go more heavy on that stuff for Hurts instead. Air Coryell is said to utilize the run game more than air raid so all of that long stuff theoretically is set up by more runs and play action. That will help its effectiveness if we stick with it. You also need another fast WR to open up the underneath stuff. Its a lot of vertical routes, opening up intermediate and short stuff. Smith is fast. AJ Brown is probably better utilized on intermediate stuff. Hes fast enough to go deep, but hes not a field stretcher. Someone like Franklin from Oregon has DeSean Jackson speed- would be big for this offense. If Quez ever developed in to a reliable player, we would be set already. Maybe Cedric Wilson as a free agent gives us that other speed threat to make it work. But fact is we need to prioritize a 2nd speed threat in this WR corps this offseason. Personally speaking, I prefer to take the higher percentage passes even if they are less explosive on the surface. Like you said, we don't have an ideal WR right now to run a drag and turn it into a 20yd gain instead of an 8yd gain, but personally that's what I think the first read should be if we had someone like Deebo, Amon Ra, or even a Kevontae Turpin like Dallas did. I'd be going back to that well until it runs dry like Shanahan does. Getting your playmakers the ball out in space is almost always a guaranteed recipe for success against any defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgcd3 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said: That would make sense as he worked with KM at DAL and followed him to SD. Nussmeir was actually OC at Alabama in Stoutland's last year their as OL coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sack that QB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, eagle45 said: If the Eagles have another disappointing year, then teams aren’t banging down the door to hire Moore. He might not even last here. He is, after all, running the show. So if they disappoint, there isn’t much point in firing Siri and making Moore the HC. They probably just get rid of both. Theyve just backed themselves into a corner where they either lose the guy responsible for turning it around…or they don’t turn it around and everyone gets fired. If they are elite in 2024 I think Lurie could fire Sirianni to keep Moore. Sirianni is already in murky standing in their eyes and that would show Sirianni is nothing without good coordinators if you compare his seasons. At that point I’d think Lurie would be much more attached to Moore than Sirianni and wouldn’t want to go through 2023 again and would just fire Sirianni to promote Moore. And I don’t think anyone would object because everyone is already asking what he does here to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitbased Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 32 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: You can see a lot of the same complaints we heard here with respect to read progression being long to short instead of the other way around. Drags and crossers are wide open on some of those plays but Dak is pushing it down field because that's what Moore emphasizes. Herbert is also a far better passer than Hurts, so it should give anyone pause that they weren't more potent as an offense this year. That being said, I have a lot more faith in Moore to mix in enough counters and tendency breakers to keep defenses off balance so it should still be a clear upgrade over BJ. According to Chargers fans, Ekeler really wasn't nearly as effective after injury so they didn't really have a decent run game and their protection was bad because their center was out for the year and had issues with the RG and RT spots. Couple that with WR injuries, then Herbert going down and they just kind of limped along. Their 1st round WR is also presumably a bust right now which didn't help things either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDawk_ASamuel Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 I’m more excited for DeVonta in this offense now than anything. He’s been criminally under-utilized and it’s just going to take someone with some creativity to unlock him. I always said that DeVonta is a 1500 yard receiver with a McVay/Shanahan/Ben Johnson type of mind. I’m not comparing Moore to them, but they’re on the right track now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 23 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: this is very misleading. That is a route tree on targets only. Smith looks like he did a lot less because he was only targetd on those outside routes. Hurts has a blind spot in the middle of the field. And its only 5 targets. Allen looks like he did a lot more because he had 11 targets, and was actually targeted in the middle of the field. This DOES NOT imply that Smith doesnt run routes through the middle of the field as taters believe it does. Its more so a perfect illustration of Hurts' blind spot. It's simply true. We saw the bulk of the time there just weren't routes to the middle of the field. No real reason to even bother conversing with you though, you're by far one of the most pathetic haters of Hurts on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Eagle Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 On 1/16/2024 at 10:00 AM, Connecticut Eagle said: Rebuild? Really? This team only needs to get the right five dudes to get back to championship level: An OC, a DC, and a quality player at CB, LB, and S. That's two. One month until the combine. Six weeks until free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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