EMB Blog: 2024 Camps and Preseason

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

5 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think that's a revisionist take on Wentz.  They fired Doug Pederson, in part, to keep Carson Wentz.  They only trade him because Wentz demanded the trade.  

On Doug i don’t think he was strictly fired for Carson. I think the vision of how to get them back to SB contention was different. But yeah the eagles didn’t want to deal him until they had to as he wanted out and there was no coming back (maybe he thinks they’ll make hurts want to leave idk it’s eskin). I think his overall point is if he doesn’t play at a high level that they’ll get rid of him. 

[rrfierce]

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts was middle of the pack in most of the important categories, except among the league's worst in interceptions.  Getting mid-tier play while paying elite money is a big problem.

Is it elite money though? Didn’t Daniel jones get similar ? 

[Mike030270]

10 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Not a bad year but he was paid for his 2022 numbers and impact and didn’t play up to it. My main issue with him last year was turnovers, if he can fix those he will be fine.

Well obviously. When you're paid big money you're expected to be top tier but the tweet made it seem like he's on his way out

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts was middle of the pack in most of the important categories, except among the league's worst in interceptions.  Getting mid-tier play while paying elite money is a big problem.

Which stats?

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

First, they’re not gonna be able to trade him unless he wants out. I believe he has a clause in his contract unlike Carson wentz that was put in by his agent because of everything that happened when he took over and he saw what happened with Carson Wentz. So they may or may not feel that way, but it really doesn’t matter unless he’s at the point where he says I’m done with being here. So really eskin can say that but it is very unlikely for multiple reasons and far fetched they deal him unless both say it’s time 

secondly, I said after the year and felt this way for a while that this year was massive for Jalen hurts. If you’re closer to 2021 and 2023 then 2022, that would be 3 out of 4 years you haven’t been able to replicate what you did in 2022 for whatever the reasons we want to say. Imo in order for the eagles to win a Sb he has to be close or at the level of 2022. Same thing could be applied to Carson wentz heading into 2019. It was a big year for him where he needed to get himself back to close to the 2017 otherwise 3 of 4 years he just wasn’t that guy and couldn’t replicate it. Then never reached it consistently in 2019 but wound up getting hot in December and that was closest he really ever got to being the player he was in 2017. Then ultimately imploded in 2020. To me this year is huge for hurts. If he’s closer to 2021/2023 than 2022 i don’t believe he gets traded but i do believe he questions begin to arise within the organization and i don’t think it’s out of the question they might start looking at the Qb position going forward. If he is 2022 or close to it then this noise goes away. Imo that’s why i think it’s a huge year for him. 

I'm curious as to why you're grouping 2021 and 2023 together there. He wasn't playing poorly. Sure the team took a nose dive at the end but that was a team failure

[Mike030270]

3 minutes ago, rrfierce said:

Is it elite money though? Didn’t Daniel jones get similar ? 

He was the highest paid QB for a week or month until the others started getting their contracts

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 minute ago, rrfierce said:

Is it elite money though? Didn’t Daniel jones get similar ? 

Hurts is being paid top 6 avg salary per year at his position (was top 5 til Lawrence and Goff got their money recently). Kind of have to think that’s elite money. Jones per year salary is 14th in all QBs at $40 mil per year. 

[Mike030270]

Lol he at least got a discussion going during the offseason with his insane comment

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

34 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Well obviously. When you're paid big money you're expected to be top tier but the tweet made it seem like he's on his way out

Which stats?

I'm curious as to why you're grouping 2021 and 2023 together there. He wasn't playing poorly. Sure the team took a nose dive at the end but that was a team failure

he wasn’t at 2022 level in 2023 or 2021. Even at 10-1 he wasn’t playing at the same level as 2022. He had moments where he looked like it (bills second half) and moments where he looked like 2021 hurts (jets game and end of New England game). You need 2022 level of play consistently in order to win a SB. Heck got an all time performance in the Sb and it wasn’t enough. His turnovers were a problem in 2023 form the first week against New England to the end. That’s part of the position. When you have 20 turnovers in a season it’s a problem and caught up to them when the last month and a half you have a 9 TD to 6 turnover ratio. One of the reasons why he was as good as he was in 2022 was because he took care of the ball and made smart decisions with the football. This isn’t Sirianni/brian Johnson don’t have any blame or the offensive line not being able to pick up a blitz doesn’t have blame. They were also a big problem. But the turnovers and decision-making at times with Jalen hurts last year happened from week one until the very end of the year. Those things also were factors in the offensive demise  

There were a lot of problems with the Eagles last year, so it’s not all on him why that team nose dived the way it did. From sf on hurts down the stretch had 5 td passes, 4 rushing tds, 5 ints, 3 fumbles, 1 lost, 61% of his passes and 77.6 qb rating. He wasn’t the only issue on offense and the defense was absolutely atrocious. The defense was a massively bigger issue as i think it was personnel and coaching. but he was not good down the stretch and he had a high turnover rate even in the 10-1 start, he had 14 turnovers during that stretch but he was able to overcome them cause he had 29 Total tds.

I’ll say the same thing with Carson wentz. When you look at his 2018 and 2019 stats, he wasn’t playing "poorly” but when you watched him, you knew he wasn’t playing consistently at the level he was in 2017, which is what you needed in order to win a Super Bowl and why you paid him that type of money. Now there were other factors on that team in 2019 contributing as well. To me 2023 hurts wasnt 2021 hurts but 2023 hurts also wasn’t consistently close 2022 hurts either. So when they paid him if hurts is closer to either 2021 or 2023 and not 2022 that’s basically 3 of 4 years he’s not replicated that one season. Similarly to wentz in that 2016-2019 time  

[Iggles_Phan]

33 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think that's a revisionist take on Wentz.  They fired Doug Pederson, in part, to keep Carson Wentz.  They only trade him because Wentz demanded the trade.  

That's true.  But given what they 'provided' him to work with at WR after 2017... you can't blame him for wanting out.   The Eagles dramatically changed gears at the WR position after that.  

[twistr]

24 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Well obviously. When you're paid big money you're expected to be top tier but the tweet made it seem like he's on his way out

Which stats?

I'm curious as to why you're grouping 2021 and 2023 together there. He wasn't playing poorly. Sure the team took a nose dive at the end but that was a team failure

Who gets the blame when the team fails? QBs and coaches. 

[NCiggles]

9 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Not a bad year but he was paid for his 2022 numbers and impact and didn’t play up to it. My main issue with him last year was turnovers, if he can fix those he will be fine.

The offense could not function against the blitz.  How much of that was due to the coaching? I don't know but it wasn't all the coaching.  

[Alphagrand]

28 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Which stats?

Passing yardage, passing TDs, and completion percentage.  He also slid back to near the bottom in time-to-throw, which I think is an important barometer to how well or poorly the QB is operating the scripted offense.

Passing yardage is likely the least important IMO, because throwing for a bunch of yards every week is symptomatic of the team being behind in the second half of games too often  

[NCiggles]

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's true.  But given what they 'provided' him to work with at WR after 2017... you can't blame him for wanting out.   The Eagles dramatically changed gears at the WR position after that.  

They didn't change gears as much as they made better choices.  I mean they could have drafted DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  Instead they drafted JJaw and Reagor.  

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

They didn't change gears as much as they made better choices.  I mean they could have drafted DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  Instead they drafted JJaw and Reagor.  

I was one of the few that hated their 2020 offseason plan at wr. I thought they were setting themselves up for failure to rely on an injury prone and older desean, alshon who was basically injury prone and on his last legs and 3 rookie WRs. Carson was his own worse enemy and just bad in 2020 but their plan at WR was also just as bad and idiotic 

[NCiggles]

42 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

On Doug i don’t think he was strictly fired for Carson. I think the vision of how to get them back to SB contention was different. But yeah the eagles didn’t want to deal him until they had to as he wanted out and there was no coming back (maybe he thinks they’ll make hurts want to leave idk it’s eskin). I think his overall point is if he doesn’t play at a high level that they’ll get rid of him. 

I agree.  I think it was only part of the reason they moved on from Doug.  Doug also did not want to get rid of Pres Taylor.  Not moving of from Pres Taylor is also probably what will get him fired from Jacksonville.  

[Mike030270]

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Passing yardage, passing TDs, and completion percentage.  He also slid back to near the bottom in time-to-throw, which I think is an important barometer to how well or poorly the QB is operating the scripted offense.

Passing yardage is likely the least important IMO, because throwing for a bunch of yards every week is symptomatic of the team being behind in the second half of games too often  

Appreciate the specifics. I think his passing yards would improve drastically if he didn't run as much. He should run less considering the weapons and contracts too

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

They didn't change gears as much as they made better choices.  I mean they could have drafted DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  Instead they drafted JJaw and Reagor.  

I think he meant the drafting of Smith and getting Brown

[NCiggles]

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I was one of the few that hated their 2020 offseason plan at wr. I thought they were setting themselves up for failure to rely on an injury prone and older desean, alshon who was basically injury prone and on his last legs and 3 rookie WRs. Carson was his own worse enemy and just bad in 2020 but their plan at WR was also just as bad and idiotic 

If Justin Jefferson was on the team instead of Reagor, it would have been a much different WR corps. 

[NCiggles]

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

Appreciate the specifics. I think his passing yards would improve drastically if he didn't run as much. He should run less considering the weapons and contracts too

I think he meant the drafting of Smith and getting Brown

They used high draft picks on WR in 2019 and 2020.   They just whiffed on both picks.  There's a scenario where they could have drafted both DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  If those players were on the 2020 roster, I would imagine Doug would still be coaching the team.  

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

They didn't change gears as much as they made better choices.  I mean they could have drafted DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  Instead they drafted JJaw and Reagor.  

Correct.  They tried to get cute.   With DaVonta, he was clearly the best WR available (yes, even better than his teammate, whose name currently escapes me).  And then they picked up an established star WR.   They didn't go for the niche player.  They went for the best all-around.

 

Trust me, I know that JJ was sitting there for them, but he didn't fit the 'speed' thing they thought they were missing.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Correct.  They tried to get cute.   With DaVonta, he was clearly the best WR available (yes, even better than his teammate, whose name currently escapes me).  And then they picked up an established star WR.   They didn't go for the niche player.  They went for the best all-around.

 

Trust me, I know that JJ was sitting there for them, but he didn't fit the 'speed' thing they thought they were missing.

Jaylen waddle.... Who is pretty damn good too

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

9 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

If Justin Jefferson was on the team instead of Reagor, it would have been a much different WR corps. 

They’d have had 1 reliable WR as opposed to 0. Desean didn’t stay healthy and it was a pattern at that part of his career. Alshon was done. Hightower and quez weren’t good either nor ready. They would’ve been better because Justin Jefferson is awesome but their wide receiver plan still would’ve been not very good. You can’t have a wide receiving corps of Justin Jefferson,and then a bunch of guys who are hurt , just not ready to play, weren’t very good or just unreliable. 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

They used high draft picks on WR in 2019 and 2020.   They just whiffed on both picks.  There's a scenario where they could have drafted both DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson.  If those players were on the 2020 roster, I would imagine Doug would still be coaching the team.  

Likely true.   And he was scapegoated, and the guy responsible for the failures was not held responsible.   Howie has 9 lives.  He gets to screw up and recover... no one else has that type of job security in the NFL.   Well, him and Mike Tomlin.

[Iggles_Phan]

6 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Jaylen waddle.... Who is pretty damn good too

He is... but not as good as DaVonta.   One man's opinion.

[Iggles_Phan]

33 minutes ago, twistr said:

Who gets the blame when the team fails? QBs and coaches. 

A lot of places blame the GM too.   

[Mike030270]

14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

A lot of places blame the GM too.   

[315Eagles]

Eskin also said

"Nick Sirianni is a very good coach," Eskin told Hugh Douglas and Joe Giglio on Tuesday's 94WIP Midday Show. "I know there are people that don't want to believe that, but players respect him. Maybe Jalen has some questions, but it's not the head coach. If you're worried about the offense than it's Kellen Moore and he gets along with Kellen Moore, so what are you trying to do? He better have a good year and I think he'll have a better year. But I think he needs to have a good year or they're going to Carson Wentz him if he doesn't have a good year...He's got to have a good year and he can't make excuses. Just go out there and be the best player you can be."

 

"Here's what I found out when I started to check into this further," Eskin said. "[Hurts] said the offense is 95-percent different, new, correct? OK. It's 20-percent different, it's not 95-percent, it's only about 20-percent. I found that out from multiple people."

So why did Hurts say that?

"To make an excuse, because people criticized him with the way he was playing at camp," Eskin responded.

"I'm like disappointed [in Hurts], you don't need excuses. Take responsibility."

 

I always thought the 95% offense change was a bit exaggerated.   He has a loaded offense around him.  There should be no excuses.