EMB Blog: 2024 Camps and Preseason

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I think that shows our scouting department is doing their job when they find quality NFL players. Maybe it’s not 100% on the coaches, but you’d expect them to make it work. 

 

2 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Rasul Douglas was a good pick, especially in the third round. Cutting him and getting nothing in return is where the problem is.

I think that's where the front office takes some heat for hiring the wrong coaches, then.  It all needs to work together.   Some teams just do that better than others.  Some teams just know what their type of player is, and they target and acquire those types rather than taking players that fit better elsewhere.    There aren't a lot of players that I can recall that were drafted by the Ravens, for example, who were cut and then went on to have great success elsewhere.   Maybe I am mistaken in that though.

[TEW]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah.  It's on the GM to find the players that fit what the coaches do, just as much as it is on the coaches to make the players they are given work.   It's a two way street.  

Personally, I don't care at all what players go on to do elsewhere when evaluating draft picks.  Those 14 INTs didn't help this team whatsoever.   Equally, I don't give credit for guys like Jordan Poyer either.   If they don't contribute here, they are still a waste of resources.   There has been a lack of good communication between the front office/scouting department and coaches before.   That's on BOTH ends, not just the coaches.

 

By your logic, a GM could draft hall of fame players with every pick he ever makes, and if the coach simply refuses to play them, then that’s an equal failing of the GM and the coach.

Insane thinking.

More rational thinking would be if a player is drafted, not played, and ends up succeeding on other teams, then the coaches have failed, and if the player fails on multiple teams, then that is a failure of the GM.

And then you have to put each pick in context: even second and third round picks succeed at significantly less than a 50% rate league wide, so looking at the body of work is important because you are guaranteed to miss on more than you hit outside of the first round.

[TEW]

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I did not.  You tried to hide 'success' behind 'should'.  You are describing success at the CB position as the likely outcome.   And when someone pressed you, you said that you didn't say anything about success.  Because you qualified it with should.   Ok.   

 

I didn't interpret it at all.  I shared why I am not as optimistic for the level of success you are projecting (notice, not saying "WILL" happen).  I am far more skeptical regarding success for the long term at the position.   We'll see.  I hope I am wrong and that you are also wrong and that we end up with 3 starters and need to flip one to fill in the gigantic hole that remains at LB.

I tried to "hide” something by literally using the word "should” in what I wrote?  

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, TEW said:

 

By your logic, a GM could draft hall of fame players with every pick he ever makes, and if the coach simply refuses to play them, then that’s an equal failing of the GM and the coach.

Insane thinking.

What you just defined is an extreme example of a dysfunctional organization... and the GM is supposed to be the one to create a functional organization.  So, yes... its still a failure, in part, on the GM.  We know that Howie plays a very large role in hiring the coaching staffs.  So, he would have to take the blame for hiring the wrong coaches... wouldn't he?

[TEW]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What you just defined is an extreme example of a dysfunctional organization... and the GM is supposed to be the one to create a functional organization.  So, yes... its still a failure, in part, on the GM.  We know that Howie plays a very large role in hiring the coaching staffs.  So, he would have to take the blame for hiring the wrong coaches... wouldn't he?

No, what I described is an extreme example of how flawed your logic is.

If a GM does nothing but draft hall of famers, the problem isn’t the GM.

Yes, the organization may be dysfunctional, but that is because the coach is incompetent.  

[twistr]

7 minutes ago, TEW said:

 

By your logic, a GM could draft hall of fame players with every pick he ever makes, and if the coach simply refuses to play them, then that’s an equal failing of the GM and the coach.

Insane thinking.

More rational thinking would be if a player is drafted, not played, and ends up succeeding on other teams, then the coaches have failed, and if the player fails on multiple teams, then that is a failure of the GM.

And then you have to put each pick in context: even second and third round picks succeed at significantly less than a 50% rate league wide, so looking at the body of work is important because you are guaranteed to miss on more than you hit outside of the first round.

There's an element of fit to the scheme to that as well, which is what I think happened with Douglas in particular. Square peg round hole, though they should have figured out something because he did flash a decent amount here.

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, TEW said:

No, what I described is an extreme example of how flawed your logic is.

If a GM does nothing but draft hall of famers, the problem isn’t the GM.

Yes, the organization may be dysfunctional, but that is because the coach is incompetent.  

And who is responsible for hiring the coach?  

[NOTW]

I agree that too many fans are putting the cart before the horse about the corner position. Talking about having too much talent and trading someone? We have no idea how Mitchell or Rodgers will actually work out in actual games yet. They're in OTAs in shorts and helmets. Ringo and Ricks were thrown into a bad situation last year and looked good...in comparison to hot garbage. There's potential, there's promise and it's exciting that they addressed the position and have young talent to develop. But we have to see how it all plays out.

[Mike030270]

I'm not in favor of getting rid of any of them. People so easily forget when injury bug took out a bunch of players and the depth was trash cans on the field

[LeanMeanGM]

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I agree that too many fans are putting the cart before the horse about the corner position. Talking about having too much talent and trading someone? We have no idea how Mitchell or Rodgers will actually work out in actual games yet. They're in OTAs in shorts and helmets. Ringo and Ricks were thrown into a bad situation last year and looked good...in comparison to hot garbage. There's potential, there's promise and it's exciting that they addressed the position and have young talent to develop. But we have to see how it all plays out.

I don't think it's too early to talk about trading anyone, it's the reality of the situation. What each individual player will eventually become is too soon. But we have a handful of guys right now, too many to take everyone to the 53 unless there is some insane amount of injuries during camp. Offers can come at any minute and the GM is going to have to make decisions without the benefit of seeing how they perform over the season. 

[TEW]

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And who is responsible for hiring the coach?  

The owner.

[Iggles_Phan]

9 minutes ago, TEW said:

The owner.

   Ok.  We're done here.

[TEW]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

   Ok.  We're done here.

You don’t think the owner hired the head coach?   

[Alphagrand]

16 minutes ago, TEW said:

The owner.

The Lurie/Howie dynamic is an interesting one, for sure.  I think most of us agree it would be hard to envision Lurie firing Howie under any circumstances.  Howie will have a job with the Eagles as long as he wants one; IMO it's much more likely he'd get moved into some other management position than get fired.  How much autonomy Howie truly has, compared to other GMs is an interesting topic.

Making the final draft decision on a top 5 pick -- most NFL owners get involved in that decision, including Lurie.  Would Lurie override his coach/GM on a high draft pick as Tepper reportedly did with Bryce Young?

Giving out mega-contracts to the franchise QB (Wentz, then Hurts) -- definite ownership involvement in pretty much all franchises

What about a huge trade?  Did Howie trade the first round pick for AJ Brown all on his own and sign him to the 4-year/$100M contract, or did Lurie have to signoff on that trade/signing?

What about head coach hiring/firing?  Lurie is reportedly always directly involved in head coach hiring/firing decisions.  Not sure that can be said for most owners.

[EaglePhan1986]

2 hours ago, hputenis said:

If it's anything like @EaglePhan1986's sack summit, make sure you stay awake, and keep your chin out of reach.  

🤣🤣🤣

[WentzFan11]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

   Ok.  We're done here.

In our organization Lurie definitely has say. Do you think Lurie is just letting Howie run the show?

[RememberTheKoy]

 

 

[EagleJoe8]

31 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

   Ok.  We're done here.

I don’t always see eye to eye with TEW on Howie related things, but I have to agree with him on that. After Chip was fired and before Doug was hired, Lurie said in one of his PCs that with his HC, the one structure he insists upon is that the HC report directly to him. Stands to reason, he gets input of course, but the final call is Lurie’s. 

[Connecticut Eagle]

Has Lurie been perfect?  No.  But compare him to other owners, not an idealistic version of an owner in your imagination.

Franchise wins since 1984.  All the teams ahead of the Eagles have had a HOF QB.

	Wins
New England	320
Green Bay	305
Pittsburgh	302
Kansas City	277
Indianapolis	275
Philadelphia	269

[WentzFan11]

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Has Lurie been perfect?  No.  But compare him to other owners, not an idealistic version of an owner in your imagination.

Franchise wins since 1984.  All the teams ahead of the Eagles have had a HOF QB.

	Wins
New England	320
Green Bay	305
Pittsburgh	302
Kansas City	277
Indianapolis	275
Philadelphia	269

Nick Foles HOF QB. 

[RLC]

@Iggles_Phan

What's with this Darby slander.

Good starter at CB that helped win us a SB. He's still playing in the league!

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

You don’t think the owner hired the head coach?   

You don't think the GM played a role in that.  🤔

[Iggles_Phan]

58 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

In our organization Lurie definitely has say. Do you think Lurie is just letting Howie run the show?

No.  I find it funny that the GM was completely disregarded in that decision according to TEW.  The last few rounds of hires it has been Howie, Lurie and Don Smolinski involved, not the owner alone.

 

And most teams give the GM more power without so much direct oversight by the owner.  The Eagles organizational chart is very confused and complicated.

[TEW]

57 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The Lurie/Howie dynamic is an interesting one, for sure.  I think most of us agree it would be hard to envision Lurie firing Howie under any circumstances.  Howie will have a job with the Eagles as long as he wants one; IMO it's much more likely he'd get moved into some other management position than get fired.  How much autonomy Howie truly has, compared to other GMs is an interesting topic.

Making the final draft decision on a top 5 pick -- most NFL owners get involved in that decision, including Lurie.  Would Lurie override his coach/GM on a high draft pick as Tepper reportedly did with Bryce Young?

Giving out mega-contracts to the franchise QB (Wentz, then Hurts) -- definite ownership involvement in pretty much all franchises

What about a huge trade?  Did Howie trade the first round pick for AJ Brown all on his own and sign him to the 4-year/$100M contract, or did Lurie have to signoff on that trade/signing?

What about head coach hiring/firing?  Lurie is reportedly always directly involved in head coach hiring/firing decisions.  Not sure that can be said for most owners.

Totally disagree on Howie being untouchable.

He’s already essentially been fired once.

Certainly he has more job security than most GM’s, who are on a 3 year timer the moment they sign their contract, but I don’t think Lurie views Howie as untouchable.

I think Lurie is pragmatic, or at least he tried to be. He moved Howie out of the way when Chip demanded to go all in on his philosophy. I think if the eagles put up 2 bad seasons in a row, Howie is on the hot seat. Lurie isn’t getting any younger and he wants more rings. If he doesn’t view the eagles as legitimate Super Bowl contenders I think the clock starts ticking.

As far as Lurie’s involvement with player personnel, I suspect he takes a mostly hands off approach. Obviously any big move Lurie has to give the OK on — big trade, major draft pick, or blue chip free agent… but my guess is this is more of "will you spend the money and do you view him as a character risk” more than "do you think he is good?”

However, I think Lurie is MUCH more involved with coaching staff selection. He goes to the interviews and asks the tough questions. I think Lurie will listen to Howie or whoever, but whereas Lurie’s approval on player personnel is mostly a formality, I think he is the major decision maker on high profile staff decisions like head coach, GM, and coordinators.

[TEW]

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You don't think the GM played a role in that.  🤔

Who has final say? Who is the major decision maker? The owner, of course.

Whereas with player personnel it’s the GM and coach.