EMB Blog: 2024 Camps and Preseason

[Know Life]

Rally House needs a new jingle. Jesus.

[LeanMeanGM]

I’ve been trying to think of how much it would take for the Colts to move off the pick of Luck, and I’m just not seeing how it would be possible, especially since you can only trade picks a max of 3 years into the future. You would have to trade probably every pick in the next 3 years and figure out how to trade away players for another 2 first round picks. It would never be worth it. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

I’ve been trying to think of how much it would take for the Colts to move off the pick of Luck, and I’m just not seeing how it would be possible, especially since you can only trade picks a max of 3 years into the future. You would have to trade probably every pick in the next 3 years and figure out how to trade away players for another 2 first round picks. It would never be worth it. 

DO THE DEAL! lol 

[McMVP]

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lane is likely not here if you make that trade with the picks they were going to give up. It is still better than colts but still not as good it had been during that stretch

But Stoutland still would be.  His oline would’ve been worlds better

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

11 minutes ago, McMVP said:

But Stoutland still would be.  His oline would’ve been worlds better

Just like to point out the eagles for much of the time Lane has been out while here, they have not fared very well. I’d argue lane Johnson has been one of the best OL in this franchise’s history and one of the best in the league. As great as stoutland has been the eagles have struggled when lane has been injured

I would also argue if the Eagles move heaven and earth to go get Andrew luck, there’s a chance that Andy Reid isn’t fired at the end of 2012. Because they would have their franchise quarterback and they’d give Reid another year besides just his rookie year. I don’t think it’s out of the question (frankly more likely imo) he may have gotten another year after Andrew luck rookie season. So there’s a chance stoutland is not here because Chip doesn’t come.

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

He doesn't and correcting someone's stats isn't hating. Hurts is in the top but comparing his total stats to another QB to make up for the passing stats is just being dishonest

There are plenty of teams that like to pass when they are close to the endzone because they have little confidence in their ability to run it in. If anything, passing TDs of less than 5 yards, unless on 3rd or 4th down are merely QB stat pads. That's "context" too. Andy Reid calls  those an "extension of the running game." How many shovel pass TDs does Mahomes have? 

In 2021 alone, Hurts had 9 passing TDs nullified to penalties. 

I have no problem saying Burrow is a better passer. Nor do I have a problem saying the dude is injury prone. But when the argument is listing the top QBs, there are more things to factor than just passing. Some people don't like the style of offense that the Eagles have used with Hurts the last 3 years. That's a preference, not a truth. Those "51 starts" in that tweet are  100% QB play for both players. Like it or not. 

[McMVP]

10 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Just like to point out the eagles for much of the time Lane has been out while here, they have not fared very well. I’d argue lane Johnson has been one of the best OL in this franchise’s history and one of the best in the league. As great as stoutland has been the eagles have struggled when lane has been injured

I would also argue if the Eagles move heaven and earth to go get Andrew luck, there’s a good chance that Andy Reid isn’t fired at the end of 2012. Because they would have their franchise quarterback and they’d give Reid another year besides just his rookie year. He probably would’ve gotten another year after Andrew rookie season. So there’s a chance stoutland is not here because Chip doesn’t come.

That’s a very fair point…the Chip era may have been worth it just for Stout

[NOTW]

WR receiving yards shouldn't count after the catch. Yards after catch should be categorized as rushing yards. Then you could compare a WR who catches more deep passes and less YAC with a WR who has more YAC and exclude certain ways they arrived at the same destination to argue which is better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alphagrand]

Congratulations to Sergei Bobrovsky.  Had to watch the last nine minutes to see him lock it down, and the better team finally won.  Too bad they didn’t finish it in four.

Oilers should have been out in the 2nd round 

[LeanMeanGM]

Just now, NOTW said:

WR receiving yards shouldn't count after the catch. Yards after catch should be categorized as rushing yards. Then you could compare a WR who catches more deep passes and less YAC with a WR who has more YAC and exclude certain ways they arrived at the same destination to argue which is better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s basically the argument always used against Deebo 

[BigEFly]

9 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah.  It's on the GM to find the players that fit what the coaches do, just as much as it is on the coaches to make the players they are given work.   It's a two way street.  

Personally, I don't care at all what players go on to do elsewhere when evaluating draft picks.  Those 14 INTs didn't help this team whatsoever.   Equally, I don't give credit for guys like Jordan Poyer either.   If they don't contribute here, they are still a waste of resources.   There has been a lack of good communication between the front office/scouting department and coaches before.   That's on BOTH ends, not just the coaches.

Douglas helped win a Super Bowl here.

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

8 hours ago, RLC said:

@Iggles_Phan

What's with this Darby slander.

Good starter at CB that helped win us a SB. He's still playing in the league!

Yeah, but he dropped an interception that would have won the Super Bowl a few seconds earlier. Boo!!

[TEW]

10 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lane is likely not here if you make that trade with the picks they were going to give up. It is still better than colts but still not as good it had been during that stretch

They would have found a way. That’s what the eagles do — put together talented offensive lines.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

14 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

and then consider Burrow has matched him while having one of the worst OLs while Hurts has had one of the elite OLs and all of the weapons he can ask for. And they counted a bunch of rushing TDs for Hurts while Burrow can actually throw TDs. Context is important. Burrow is better. Though, we will see what happens with that wrist injury.

 

Wait, are you saying Burrow is short of weapons?  The man had the best 3 receiver set in the league from '21 to '23, as well as a solid tight end and a legit dual threat running back.

As a pure passer he probably is better than Hurts but Jesus Christ you talk like he's been weaving gold out of straw when he had one of the best supporting casts in the NFL outside O-Line.

And all that said as an example of the quality of the skill positions I look at the numbers Jake Browning put up as back up to Burrow last year behind the same line, higher completion percentage, yards per attempt and passer rating than Burrow through 7 games to close out the season.

[ToastJenkins]

32 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Wait, are you saying Burrow is short of weapons?  The man had the best 3 receiver set in the league from '21 to '23, as well as a solid tight end and a legit dual threat running back.

As a pure passer he probably is better than Hurts but Jesus Christ you talk like he's been weaving gold out of straw when he had one of the best supporting casts in the NFL outside O-Line.

And all that said as an example of the quality of the skill positions I look at the numbers Jake Browning put up as back up to Burrow last year behind the same line, higher completion percentage, yards per attempt and passer rating than Burrow through 7 games to close out the season.

You love and overrate Hurts, we know

[Iggles_Phan]

8 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Douglas helped win a Super Bowl here.

Yes he did, but the conversation has been focused on the 7+ years mark that was put forward.    The Eagles haven't had any CB for 7 consecutive years since Lito and Sheldon.   Both played 7 or more years here.   Sheppard for 7 years, from 2002 - 2008.  Brown for 8 years, from 2002 - 2009.   So, the idea that we have the answer at Cb for the next 7+ years seems far fetched.    Before that they had Vincent for 8 years and Taylor for 9 years.    But, the Eagles just haven't had that type of success at the CB position since then.   We've had a few years with some top players... Slay was really good for 3 years... but has dramatically fallen off.  They got a single great year from Bradberry... and then slop.  Asante Samuel was pretty good here too... for 4 years.   But, the mark described was 7+ years.   And players like that haven't been acquired through any means by this team since 2002 at the CB position.    That's a steep mark to put out there for these guys, especially before we see them on the field.   

 

Darby, Douglas, Mills... were all CBs on the Super Bowl team.  None were at the level of the players mentioned earlier while they were here.   Avante Maddox, if he makes the team this year, will hit the magic 7 year mark.   But, I'd be hard pressed to say that he was an answer at CB... especially as we've all read the complaints about his Mr. Glass status.   He's had one season where he played 16 games in those first 6 seasons.  Not exactly the gold standard for success in player acquisitions. 

 

I remain in wait and see mode about these guys.   Optimism is great.   Over confidence seems to be the prevalent feeling currently though.  

[BigEFly]

15 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

and then consider Burrow has matched him while having one of the worst OLs while Hurts has had one of the elite OLs and all of the weapons he can ask for. And they counted a bunch of rushing TDs for Hurts while Burrow can actually throw TDs. Context is important. Burrow is better. Though, we will see what happens with that wrist injury.

 

That’s kind of a hollow argument.   Both QBs are pushing to get the team into scoring position.  If Hurts throws a bomb to Smith and the DB stops him at the 2 and then Hurts runs it in.  Is that so much different than Chase catching the ball at the two and muscling his way into the end zone?  Both offenses got down the field.  

[Diehardfan]

26 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

That’s kind of a hollow argument.   Both QBs are pushing to get the team into scoring position.  If Hurts throws a bomb to Smith and the DB stops him at the 2 and then Hurts runs it in.  Is that so much different than Chase catching the ball at the two and muscling his way into the end zone?  Both offenses got down the field.  

One QB leaves the middle of the field alone and can't progress through his receivers. JB is clearly a better QB without the injury. 

[HazletonEagle]

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Wait, are you saying Burrow is short of weapons?  The man had the best 3 receiver set in the league from '21 to '23, as well as a solid tight end and a legit dual threat running back.

As a pure passer he probably is better than Hurts but Jesus Christ you talk like he's been weaving gold out of straw when he had one of the best supporting casts in the NFL outside O-Line.

And all that said as an example of the quality of the skill positions I look at the numbers Jake Browning put up as back up to Burrow last year behind the same line, higher completion percentage, yards per attempt and passer rating than Burrow through 7 games to close out the season.

No I was not saying that. I started the difference in their OLs...

[HazletonEagle]

30 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

That’s kind of a hollow argument.   Both QBs are pushing to get the team into scoring position.  If Hurts throws a bomb to Smith and the DB stops him at the 2 and then Hurts runs it in.  Is that so much different than Chase catching the ball at the two and muscling his way into the end zone?  Both offenses got down the field.  

We know Hurts wasn't a good red zone passer.  He now consistently runs it in and still hasn't shown that he has become a good red zone passer. 

For all we know,  the team abandoned the idea of letting him throw it down there years ago. 

[BigEFly]

6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

One QB leaves the middle of the field alone and can't progress through his receivers. JB is clearly a better QB without the injury. 

Without injury is an important distinction.   Sounds like the wrist isn’t fully back.

 

[RLC]

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

We know Hurts wasn't a good red zone passer.  He now consistently runs it in and still hasn't shown that he has become a good red zone passer. 

For all we know,  the team abandoned the idea of letting him throw it down there years ago. 

It was fine with Steichen.

[Alphagrand]

32 minutes ago, RLC said:

It was fine with Steichen.

I don't think that's really true.

In 2022 with Steichen, only 9 of Hurts' 22 TD passes were within the red zone (41%)

In 2023 with Johnson, 13 of Hurts' 23 TD passes were within the red zone.  (57%)

 

Just for craps and giggles I ran Burrow's for comparison, since that seems to be a discussion point:

2022 -- 23 of his 35 TD passes were within the red zone  (66%)

2023 -- 11 of his 15 TD passes were within the red zone  (73%)

 

Not sure what that says, but TFWIW.

[Alphagrand]

For Patrick Mahomes:

2022 -- 35 of his 42 TD passes were within the red zone  (83%)

2023 -- 24 of his 27 TD passes were within the red zone  (89%)

 

The Chiefs score an absurd amount of TDs on short passes ...... as Slay and Maddox found out the hard way in the Super Bowl.

[BigEFly]

22 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think that's really true.

In 2022 with Steichen, only 9 of Hurts' 22 TD passes were within the red zone (41%)

In 2023 with Johnson, 13 of Hurts' 23 TD passes were within the red zone.  (57%)

 

Just for craps and giggles I ran Burrow's for comparison, since that seems to be a discussion point:

2022 -- 23 of his 35 TD passes were within the red zone  (66%)

2023 -- 11 of his 15 TD passes were within the red zone  (73%)

 

Not sure what that says, but TFWIW.

Suggests that Hurts and his receivers are better at the long ball than Burrows and his.