Round 2 (#53): Eagles select Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma QB)

[TomatoPie]

 

[QBhunter58]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, DeathByEagle said:

Again I agree, it was a need, just a bit early. Think they could have landed him in the 3rd with using one of the 4ths to move up from 103 to get him. 

Yup.

[QBhunter58]

Just now, QBhunter58 said:

Yup.

BTW has any other draft pick ever warranted 57 pages of posts?😆

[TomatoPie]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2020/4/30/21239699/philadelphia-eagles-nfl-draft-jalen-hurts-doug-pederson-howie-roseman-carson-wentz-state-quarterback

[allphilly]

5 hours ago, QBhunter58 said:

BTW has any other draft pick ever warranted 57 pages of posts?😆

Pretty sure the Wentz pick was in the millions

[EazyEaglez]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:09 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

There's not happy and then there's unhappy like some have tried to suggest. I am sure he isn't thrilled by the move but as you say he will get on with it as a pro.

Not happy or unhappy I’m not sure what really is the difference. What I do know is this won’t go away. They’re still talking about it on Philadelphia radio. Roseman’s all over the place defending his draft. None of the answers they are giving add up. Carson and Hurts will be dealing with this as long as they’re on the same team. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Not happy or unhappy I’m not sure what really is the difference. What I do know is this won’t go away. They’re still talking about it on Philadelphia radio. Roseman’s all over the place defending his draft. None of the answers they are giving add up. Carson and Hurts will be dealing with this as long as they’re on the same team. 

No what I'm saying is he may not be happy about the pick, doesn't mean he's going to throw his toys out the pram. He may have preferred a weapon or a play maker but that doesn't mean he's going to cut himself off or be a bad leader for this organisation. 

[EazyEaglez]

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No what I'm saying is he may not be happy about the pick, doesn't mean he's going to throw his toys out the pram. He may have preferred a weapon or a play maker but that doesn't mean he's going to cut himself off or be a bad leader for this organisation. 

I think Carson's gonna do the best he can, but we don't need to see Carson hiding injuries and trying to keep the kids off the field kind of like he did with the back. Carson isn't doing anything like that over anyone he doesn't consider a threat. In most cases Carson has been surrounded by veteran quarterbacks, but now he's the vet. I wonder will be be a mentor tYpe or will he distance himself from Hurts. We will find out soon enough.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

15 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I wonder will be be a mentor tYpe or will he distance himself from Hurts. We will find out soon enough.

I think he'll be the mentor type. Now I don't know whether before he would have been. I don't know what he's like, none of us do. But what I do know is that it is likely the the arrival of his new baby girl changes his outlook. I think he'll relish taking on the mentor role for Hurts. But that's just my opinion. 

[Ace Nova]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, DeathByEagle said:

Again I agree, it was a need, just a bit early. Think they could have landed him in the 3rd with using one of the 4ths to move up from 103 to get him. 

Then you lose out on taking Taylor (tons of upside) and Wallace (a steal where they picked him). And I’m not so sure he would have been available anywhere in the 3rd.  Pretty sure Howie put his "feelers” out on that. 

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think he'll be the mentor type. Now I don't know whether before he would have been. I don't know what he's like, none of us do. But what I do know is that it is likely the the arrival of his new baby girl changes his outlook. I think he'll relish taking on the mentor role for Hurts. But that's just my opinion. 

The arrival of his child I think changes his perspective on playing football overall. He doesn’t need this job to fulfill his life. A couple more serious injuries and I could easily see Carson thinking more about life after football. 

[ManchesterEagle]

21 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Not happy or unhappy I’m not sure what really is the difference. What I do know is this won’t go away. They’re still talking about it on Philadelphia radio. Roseman’s all over the place defending his draft. None of the answers they are giving add up. Carson and Hurts will be dealing with this as long as they’re on the same team. 

The most likely reality in my view is that the Eagles are legitimately concerned about Wentz's injuries to the point that they have drafted Hurts to potentially replace him.

That's not to say that Wentz isn't the guy. He is, but the Eagles clearly want a proper insurance policy and somebody that they believe could be their franchise QB if Wentz gets hurt again and they decide to go in a different direction.

The other explanations just don't make sense.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

The arrival of his child I think changes his perspective on playing football overall. He doesn’t need this job to fulfill his life. A couple more serious injuries and I could easily see Carson thinking more about life after football. 

Yeah I think there's that side of it too I certainly wouldn't argue against that. 

[dawkins4prez]

So I keep thinking about this and you know what, it finally takes sense to me.  First of all, straight up, why are draft picks so important?  Because young players under rookie contracts are needed to manage the salary cap.  So if it's mostly a cost-opportunity issue, then ANY position or role that you are willing to pay $7-$10m for, is absolutely worth a 2nd rd pick.

 

How many games will Jalen Hurts start over the next 4 years?  No mater how much confidence you have in Wentz you have to guestimate that over the next 4 years, his backup will start let's say 8 games.  Two games over here, a 6 game stretch over there.  For that role alone NFL teams wanting a high end option will pay something like $7-$8m/yr that Dallas just gave And7Dalton.  That's $32 m over 4 yrs while Hurts will make $6m.  That's a pretty good defensive starter you can buy with that extra money.

 

Even worse, there is no guarantee you can land a Foles/Dalton year in year out.  The top backups are fringe starters always looking a $10-$14m payday as a spot starter somewhere else.  Year to year there is no guarantee you can buy low on a Nick Foles, you might end up with a 40 yr old washed up like we did last year.  Sometimes the best backups options aren't even good fits for your scheme.

 

Then comes the Taysom Hill package.  I do NOT think the Eagles are really thinking about gadget plays with Hurts even though he will certainly have short yardage and 2 pt conversion plays.  They want to run 2 offenses. Hurts will occasionally run an entire change of pace drive and if you didn't prepare for it they will run another.   Forcing DC's to prepare for Wentz AND Hurts is like asking them to prep for Roethlisberger and Lamar Jackson in the same week.  1 drive a game = almost 2 full games especially when we the to 17 game season which brings his total snaps behind center equal to 10 games or so.

 

So the only mental block you have to get past here is that a backup Qb is only worth a 4th rd pick.  But what if you actually want a good one?  A capable backup for 4 years who is a top 30 Qb in his own right at the bargain price of $6m total contract?

 

 

 

 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

The most likely reality in my view is that the Eagles are legitimately concerned about Wentz's injuries to the point that they have drafted Hurts to potentially replace him.

That's not to say that Wentz isn't the guy. He is, but the Eagles clearly want a proper insurance policy and somebody that they believe could be their franchise QB if Wentz gets hurt again and they decide to go in a different direction.

The other explanations just don't make sense.

Carson can still be their guy, but it also makes sense they need to protect themselves. I’m sure they don’t want a situation like what happened with the Colts. At some point a team does have to ask themselves is it worth it? I mean I don’t care how good 11 is of every year he’s dropping out at key moments of the season despite the large amount of money he’s given. The Colts did everything they could to coddle Luck and he bowed out on them faster than they could blink. Their commitment to him ultimately backfired so I get why the Eagles would  do what they need to do in order to protect themselves. 

[EazyEaglez]

26 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

So I keep thinking about this and you know what, it finally takes sense to me.  First of all, straight up, why are draft picks so important?  Because young players under rookie contracts are needed to manage the salary cap.  So if it's mostly a cost-opportunity issue, then ANY position or role that you are willing to pay $7-$10m for, is absolutely worth a 2nd rd pick.

 

How many games will Jalen Hurts start over the next 4 years?  No mater how much confidence you have in Wentz you have to guestimate that over the next 4 years, his backup will start let's say 8 games.  Two games over here, a 6 game stretch over there.  For that role alone NFL teams wanting a high end option will pay something like $7-$8m/yr that Dallas just gave And7Dalton.  That's $32 m over 4 yrs while Hurts will make $6m.  That's a pretty good defensive starter you can buy with that extra money.

 

Even worse, there is no guarantee you can land a Foles/Dalton year in year out.  The top backups are fringe starters always looking a $10-$14m payday as a spot starter somewhere else.  Year to year there is no guarantee you can buy low on a Nick Foles, you might end up with a 40 yr old washed up like we did last year.  Sometimes the best backups options aren't even good fits for your scheme.

 

Then comes the Taysom Hill package.  I do NOT think the Eagles are really thinking about gadget plays with Hurts even though he will certainly have short yardage and 2 pt conversion plays.  They want to run 2 offenses. Hurts will occasionally run an entire change of pace drive and if you didn't prepare for it they will run another.   Forcing DC's to prepare for Wentz AND Hurts is like asking them to prep for Roethlisberger and Lamar Jackson in the same week.  1 drive a game = almost 2 full games especially when we the to 17 game season which brings his total snaps behind center equal to 10 games or so.

 

So the only mental block you have to get past here is that a backup Qb is only worth a 4th rd pick.  But what if you actually want a good one?  A capable backup for 4 years who is a top 30 Qb in his own right at the bargain price of $6m total contract?

 

 

 

 

Andy Dalton was only like 7 mil. Winston got a 1mi deal with incentives that could get him around 4mil. Backup quarterbacks don’t really cost that much. 

[ManchesterEagle]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Carson can still be their guy, but it also makes sense they need to protect themselves. I’m sure they don’t want a situation like what happened with the Colts. At some point a team does have to ask themselves is it worth it? I mean I don’t care how good 11 is of every year he’s dropping out at key moments of the season despite the large amount of money he’s given. The Colts did everything they could to coddle Luck and he bowed out on them faster than they could blink. Their commitment to him ultimately backfired so I get why the Eagles world do what they need to do in order to protect themselves. 

Yeah, if Carson plays well and stays healthy, there is no issue and we can all call Hurts a wasted pick.

The other explanations don't make sense:

1) Back-up value - yes the back-up QB is important, but the reality is that if Hurts is any good, he will only be an effective back up in 2021 and 2022. Little chance of him being more effective than a Vet as a rookie and after 2022 we really need to either trade him or keep him. If he's good there is no way he is agreeing to continue to play back-up on a reasonable contract.

2) Gadget player - they may use him in certain packages. I highly doubt it will make the Eagles offense that much more effective. It didn't really work with Vick, who was a ludicrous athlete. 

Hurts is absolutely a Wentz insurance plan. Did they need to do it? Was it the right time? Possibly not, but it is what it is.

[Uscg-green]

32 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah, if Carson plays well and stays healthy, there is no issue and we can all call Hurts a wasted pick.

I mean isn't a wasted 2nd round pick sort of an issue in itself though?

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, Uscg-green said:

A wasted pick is an issue.

Well in a positive light I hope we do call it a wasted pick. That means Wentz stayed healthy and hurts never makes it on to the field

[Uscg-green]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

Well in a positive light I hope we do call it a wasted pick. That means Wentz stayed healthy and hurts never makes it on to the field

I agree 100 percent. I just wish we had used that pick on someone more valuable like a Fulton or Mims.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 minute ago, Uscg-green said:

I mean isn't a wasted 2nd round pick sort of an issue in itself though?

Yeah absolutely- that’s why I don’t like the pick at this stage. I still believe Carson can stay healthy.

By drafting his potential replacement they are hurting the team now when we had so many other needs.

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, Uscg-green said:

I agree 100 percent. I just wish we had used that pick on someone more valuable like a Fulton or Mims.

I agree but, we are stuck with him now so let's hope we don't have to use him. 

[dawkins4prez]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Andy Dalton was only like 7 mil. Winston got a 1mi deal with incentives that could get him around 4mil. Backup quarterbacks don’t really cost that much. 

That's exactly what I said,  exactly.  High end backups , when you can get them, cost $7-$9 m /yr.  Dalton was only available because he got released late. He will easily get a $10-14m contract next year as a bridge Qb for some rookie.  Over 4 years that's $30-$35m.  Hurts will cost $6m over the same span.  He will also spend the entirety of that time learning our offense and practicing with our team.  It's one less headache.

 

Winston got $1m because he is terrible.  He will be out the league in 2-3 years.  he also doesn't have the locker room make up you want from your backup.

[Jfluke]

9 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Andy Dalton was only like 7 mil. Winston got a 1mi deal with incentives that could get him around 4mil. Backup quarterbacks don’t really cost that much. 

Didn't the Eagles pay Daniel around 8 mil for the one year?

They paid Foles like 9 for 2017, then threw him a bonus after the SB. 

So yeah, a coveted backup will cost a good bit. Winston has some maturity issues that likely put a lot teams off.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Winston got $1m because he is terrible.  He will be out the league in 2-3 years.  he also doesn't have the locker room make up you want from your backup.

Is that all he got? That surprises me a bit. I mean I know he's a flawed QB but dam he can go out there and win games. He's going to throw for a lot of yards, TDs and INTs but I would have thought he would have gotten more than $1M + incentives.