Star Wars ongoing thread: The Acolyte now airing

[iladelphxx]

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1389761/star-wars-reboot-sequel-trilogy-disney-plus-rise-skywalker-george-lucas-leia-doomcock?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A daily-express-film-news (Daily Express %3A%3A Film Feed)

[NOTW]

23 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1389761/star-wars-reboot-sequel-trilogy-disney-plus-rise-skywalker-george-lucas-leia-doomcock?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A daily-express-film-news (Daily Express %3A%3A Film Feed)

I didn't get past the opening line:

Quote

YouTube Star Wars leaker Doomcock recently posted an exposé video 

Various blog sites have been referencing this guy for several years with supposed reports that Kathleen Kennedy was being fired, Lucas was taking over, they were going to retcon and remake the sequel trilogy and other things.  

He's just some fan who hated the sequels and wants Lucas back.

And his name is Doomcock.  

[Weaponx01]

They aren’t going to retcon anything. They are going to do exactly what they did for the prequels. I know, over time, people’s views on the prequels have soften, and the kids that loved them are now older and posting on message boards, but those things were not good. Then The Clone Wars and Rebels came along and filled in a lot of gaps and fleshed out a lot of depth. Solo and Rogue One even more so. 
 

They are going to do the exact same thing with the sequel trilogy. The Mandalorian has already started this in a major way. They are going to backfill and bridge the gap between Return of the Jedi and and Force Awakens. Then hopefully, hopefully there will be a fleshed out, planned out, thought out story going forward. 
 

[NOTW]

12 hours ago, Weaponx01 said:

They aren’t going to retcon anything. They are going to do exactly what they did for the prequels. I know, over time, people’s views on the prequels have soften, and the kids that loved them are now older and posting on message boards, but those things were not good. Then The Clone Wars and Rebels came along and filled in a lot of gaps and fleshed out a lot of depth. Solo and Rogue One even more so. 
 

They are going to do the exact same thing with the sequel trilogy. The Mandalorian has already started this in a major way. They are going to backfill and bridge the gap between Return of the Jedi and and Force Awakens. Then hopefully, hopefully there will be a fleshed out, planned out, thought out story going forward. 
 

You're right. The TV series will satisfy fans until new movies do stories outside the Skywalker story.

[iladelphxx]

The Sequel Trilogy definitely fell on its face.  (The last 2 movies were just horrifically bad.) 

It's still mind boggling to me how they went into this without an overarching story and let each director just wing it.

I don't think anyone would care if they decided to get rid of them.

[Alpha_TATEr]

id be ok with a sequel correction. 

[Weaponx01]

Its going to be funny when the sequel trilogy is the worst of all the ST era stuff. 

[Gannan]

On 2/1/2021 at 2:16 PM, iladelphxx said:

The Sequel Trilogy definitely fell on its face.  (The last 2 movies were just horrifically bad.) 

It's still mind boggling to me how they went into this without an overarching story and let each director just wing it.

I don't think anyone would care if they decided to get rid of them.

I agree with most of this. It was a giant cash grab with no regard for an effective and consistent story arc. I give Abrams a pass on Rise of Skywlker. TLJ was so horrible and derailed the entire plot of the trilogy. Basically the 3rd film had about 2 hours to get the plot back on track and wrap it up. It was a tall task and JJ did what he could with it.

[NOTW]

Rogue One and The Mandalorian showed you can do stories that the fans will enjoy, give the proper amount of nostalgia without being over the top, still tell new stories and/or have new characters and planets to explore and make good product.

The Clone Wars series was in many ways what the prequel trilogy should have been.

Rogue One gave us the bad ass Vader we never got in ep 3.

The Mandalorian gave us the bad ass Luke we never got in the sequels.

[Mike030270]

I want book to movie/show adaptations 🤷‍♂️

[Gannan]

Speaking of books did anyone read the original sequel trilogy by Timothy Zahn? They were awesome. So much better than the movies. I get that they couldn't do those stories because the actors were too old by then, but something closer to that would have been so much better. 

[devpool]

14 hours ago, Gannan said:

I agree with most of this. It was a giant cash grab with no regard for an effective and consistent story arc. I give Abrams a pass on Rise of Skywlker. TLJ was so horrible and derailed the entire plot of the trilogy. Basically the 3rd film had about 2 hours to get the plot back on track and wrap it up. It was a tall task and JJ did what he could with it.

TLJ had some awful parts (canto bight, magic Leia) but it did not ruin ROS. They easily could have played off of TLJ but fans were butthurt that Rey was a nobody, she HAD to be connected to someone in the old trilogy somehow. So they wasted an entire movie twisting themselves into a knot trying to explain that away. It was incredibly stupid. They wrote out an entire character (that admittedly wasn't written well) to appease a toxic part of the fan base that attacked the actress so badly she had to get off social media and go to therapy. 

TLJ was just as bad as ROS, if not worse IMO. It's the fault of Kathleen Kennedy, or whoever clearly decided that they were just gonna make ish up as they go along instead of saying "here is the final destination, here are two or three major points that need to be included, get us there in a coherent manner".

[Gannan]

4 hours ago, devpool said:

TLJ had some awful parts (canto bight, magic Leia) but it did not ruin ROS. They easily could have played off of TLJ but fans were butthurt that Rey was a nobody, she HAD to be connected to someone in the old trilogy somehow. So they wasted an entire movie twisting themselves into a knot trying to explain that away. It was incredibly stupid. They wrote out an entire character (that admittedly wasn't written well) to appease a toxic part of the fan base that attacked the actress so badly she had to get off social media and go to therapy. 

TLJ was just as bad as ROS, if not worse IMO. It's the fault of Kathleen Kennedy, or whoever clearly decided that they were just gonna make ish up as they go along instead of saying "here is the final destination, here are two or three major points that need to be included, get us there in a coherent manner".

They killed off Snoke and made him a nobody. JJ had to bring in a new villain and had no time to introduce a new character so he had to bring back an old one. That was a weak foundation for RoS. They couldn't make Rey a nobody after TLJ because she was the biggest Mary Sue character of all time. She was the most powerful force user in the history of the SW universe. She needed no training to become more powerful than someone directly descended from Anakin. They had to explain how a nobody was so gifted with the force that she was the only jedi ever that didn't need any training what so ever. The entire plot was a giant cluster f. 

[sameaglesfan]

17 hours ago, Gannan said:

Speaking of books did anyone read the original sequel trilogy by Timothy Zahn? They were awesome. So much better than the movies. I get that they couldn't do those stories because the actors were too old by then, but something closer to that would have been so much better. 

I just ordered these on your rec...

[iladelphxx]

The biggest problem about this whole thing is that it made the Skywalkers completely irrelevant. 

If Palpatine comes back, then that means that Anakin Skywalker's redemption meant nothing. 

[NOTW]

Or, they could have explained that just because Luke redeemed Vader back to Anakin, doesn't meant there won't always be other evil in the world.  If people are born force sensitive, they can become Jedi, or become Sith, or something else, or nothing at all.  

The original trilogy never dealt with a prophecy or Anakin needing to bring balance to the force and end the Sith.  That was a simpler story:  dad turns bad, son turns him back good and kills off the main bad guy.  Happy ending.

The prequel trilogy created midichlorians (ugh) and the idea of the prophecy of the one who would bring balance to the force.  Even then, Yoda cautioned against buying into the prophecy saying something like it wasn't clear.

This is actually something I liked in The Last Jedi, Luke explaining that Jedi and Sith don't own the force.  The force just is.   

[devpool]

7 hours ago, Gannan said:

They killed off Snoke and made him a nobody. JJ had to bring in a new villain and had no time to introduce a new character so he had to bring back an old one. That was a weak foundation for RoS. They couldn't make Rey a nobody after TLJ because she was the biggest Mary Sue character of all time. She was the most powerful force user in the history of the SW universe. She needed no training to become more powerful than someone directly descended from Anakin. They had to explain how a nobody was so gifted with the force that she was the only jedi ever that didn't need any training what so ever. The entire plot was a giant cluster f. 

Ren was set up to be the final big bad, but he had to turn good because he was han and Lena's daughter.

Anakin at the time of episode 1 was the strongest force user ever, destroyed a trade federation capital ship after accidentally stealing a naboo fighter at 9 years old. He was a nobody.

Abrams was the one who had Rey defeat ren in TFA, don't blame TLJ on rey being a Mary Sue that was already on the table.

Neither movie was very good, but you can't blame TLJ for how bad ROS is because they COULD have made a good movie but decided that because the fans cried about certain things they had to "fix" it, which just made an equally bad movie in ROS.

[Gannan]

1 hour ago, devpool said:

Ren was set up to be the final big bad, but he had to turn good because he was han and Lena's daughter.

Anakin at the time of episode 1 was the strongest force user ever, destroyed a trade federation capital ship after accidentally stealing a naboo fighter at 9 years old. He was a nobody.

Abrams was the one who had Rey defeat ren in TFA, don't blame TLJ on rey being a Mary Sue that was already on the table.

Neither movie was very good, but you can't blame TLJ for how bad ROS is because they COULD have made a good movie but decided that because the fans cried about certain things they had to "fix" it, which just made an equally bad movie in ROS.

Ren was injured in TFA, badly, so he was easier to beat. Anakin was "the chosen one" not a nobody. TLJ set up Ren's redemption. It would have been ridiculous to make him the big bad. 

[devpool]

7 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Ren was injured in TFA, badly, so he was easier to beat. Anakin was "the chosen one" not a nobody. TLJ set up Ren's redemption. It would have been ridiculous to make him the big bad. 

It was posted earlier the "chosen one" prophecy was not clear at all stated by Yoda. And either way, yes he was an absolute nobody. Rey is in the exact same category as young anakin, except as a child she never met a jedi who said she was the chosen one. If that's all it takes then someone can write a book where Luke says it on ach to.

At the end of TLJ he asked rey to rule the galaxy with him, fought her for a lightsaber, declared himself supreme leader and then tried to destroy his old master in a fit of rage on his way to destroy the final bit of the resistance. That was the setup for him to be the big bad, full heel turn, which was ruined in ROS because the son of our favorite characters could never be evil.

You see it as a setup for redemption because you want it to mirror the OT. It's fine, obviously a lot of the fan base wanted that familiar story. But TLJ was clearly a heel turn after Ren kills Snoke to gain power, not to save Rey.

[Gannan]

1 minute ago, devpool said:

It was posted earlier the "chosen one" prophecy was not clear at all stated by Yoda. And either way, yes he was an absolute nobody. Rey is in the exact same category as young anakin, except as a child she never met a jedi who said she was the chosen one. If that's all it takes then someone can write a book where Luke says it on ach to.

At the end of TLJ he asked rey to rule the galaxy with him, fought her for a lightsaber, declared himself supreme leader and then tried to destroy his old master in a fit of rage on his way to destroy the final bit of the resistance. That was the setup for him to be the big bad, full heel turn, which was ruined in ROS because the son of our favorite characters could never be evil.

You see it as a setup for redemption because you want it to mirror the OT. It's fine, obviously a lot of the fan base wanted that familiar story. But TLJ was clearly a heel turn after Ren kills Snoke to gain power, not to save Rey.

I think the force connection would have been pretty anti climactic if Ren was the big bad, but that's just me. 

[devpool]

Just now, Gannan said:

I think the force connection would have been pretty anti climactic if Ren was the big bad, but that's just me. 

That is a fair point, and like I said neither movie was very good. But ROS could have been a good movie

[Dwide Schrude]

TLJ wasnt a good movie at all, but had its moments. ROS was awful from start to finish, just a really bad film. 
 

which sucks cause I loved TFA. I thought it was a really good Star Wars movie & set up the sequel trilogy really well

[Bill]

I couldn’t stand any of them. TFA was ANH 2.0. 
 

JJ Abrams ruins things. I have no idea why people pay for his trash. 

[NOTW]

TFA was a necessary and expected step.  Disney knew they needed to win back fans of the originals who didn't like the prequels, while also launching new characters to appeal to newer fans.  For example, my wife never liked the originals but really liked TFA.  She liked the new trio of Rey, Finn and Poe.

TFA did a good job getting back to less reliance on CGI and more real sets, practical effects, costumed characters, etc.  It wasn't fully there but a great step back toward that.  They recycled the plot way too much especially another death star.  They wanted nostalgia and familiarity but took it too far.  They did introduce a new element which was a Stormtrooper who defected.  They also introduced an interesting concept in the Knights of Ren...then did nothing with them.

TLJ did a great job with the sets and cinematography on the island Ahch-To and even the final battle (I forget the name of the planet) looked cool with the white sand that turned red.  The casino planet Canto Bight however, it looked like it was shot by an entirely different crew.  It looked like the prequels with bad CGI.  

Rogue One and The Mandalorian have done a good job with the look and feel of what new SW content should be.

[NOTW]

Monday work distraction:  Re-writing the sequel trilogy.

The Force Awakens would have been much more interesting if it started with Luke running a new Jedi academy and Leia and the OG cast contributing to rebuilding the Republic and showing political and cultural issues on various planets.  Get all the nostalgia and re-introduction to the old cast out of the way in the 1st act.  The opening scenes are a mission with Han and Chewie and a couple New Republic characters on a mission that helps set up the political stuff and battles.

Meanwhile new dark force users the Knights of Ren who don't follow the Sith rule of 2 show up.  Remnants of the old Empire join forces with other groups who want to resist the New Republic.  No new death star! 

The Jedi Academy.  Luke's nephew Ben Solo is his top student, who has a love interest with another trainee who is the 2nd best student:  Rey.  She is an orphan - a "nobody" - and Ben has the name recognition and legacy status.  He's famous, thus arrogant and cocky.  Rey lacks confidence and is stuck on feelings about her parents.  She and Ben have friendly competition and sometimes she performs better which pisses him off, most of the time Ben shines.  There would be other students who give Ben a hard time about flirting with the dark side in anger and hate and warn to not turn out like Vader.  Ben is driven to be the best even if it means learning something from the dark side, and he believes he is strong enough to walk that line without crossing it.  Luke has conversations with him about that, and talks with Leia about his concerns there.  Han and Chewie are off on a mission and not around lately.

Luke has strong feelings about the Knights of Ren and intel he's received.  He discovers they have found an old Jedi Temple on the island of Ahch-To.  The final act involves him taking his best students there to stop the Knights from getting their hands on ancient Jedi secrets that could help them gain power.  While Luke, Ben and Rey are away he has the other students going through basic training routines on their own...and some Knights of Ren show up (or Inquisitors even) and kill the students and vandalize their facility.  

Their next stop are political targets.  The Knights of Ren kill some key political figures.  As things get bad, Leia contacts Han and Chewie and crew to get back.

Meanwhile the other cast have a space battle where a hotshot pilot saves the day (Poe) along with Han, Chewie, etc.  Political stuff, explosions, etc.

Back on the island for the final act Luke, Ben and Rey have an epic light saber showdown on the island and both sides take a hit.  Luke shows the bad ass we always wanted to see, but also takes a hit and is injured.  In his anger (which he used in ROTJ when we last saw him) he uses force lightning to blast the Knights who fall down to another level of the cliff.  Rey is also injured by a Knight of Ren so she's sidelined.  She held her own but she wasn't quite ready for this.  Ben checks on them, then runs off to face the Knights alone.  Luke warns him not to go alone (sound familiar?)

Ben ends up in the cave area down in the dark pit that contains the draw to the dark side (which Luke pointed out to Rey in TLJ).  There is the draw to the dark side as well as the Knights of Ren displaying some force powers he hadn't seen before gets his interest.  They talk to him about looking past the Jedi way there is more to the Force. 

Luke shows up nursing an injury as they are trying to steal the Jedi texts.  Luke force pushes them all away showing great power.  The Knights of Ren managed to get a text or two and run off back to their ship.  Luke warns Ben again about the dark side.  He still thinks he can walk that line, to learn from the Knights of Ren but once he has learned what he needs, he plans to destroy them.  Luke again advises against this.  They are interrupted by hearing an explosion.  They go outside and discover the Knights have blown up Luke's ship (a knife in the heart to fans as Luke's original X-wing is destroyed).  Luke, Rey and Ben start using the force to try and pull back their small ship.  When it seems the ship is going to get away anyway, Ben manages to force jump onto it and climb aboard and they fly off.

Leia senses this in the Force and grieves and talks to Han.  They have that conversation from TFA about handling Ben's future.

Luke and Rey are left alone on the island with no ship.  The Republic doesn't know how to get to the hidden island.  Rey asks him about the force lightning and the anger he showed, I thought that was something only a Sith would do.  Luke tells Rey she's got a lot more to learn about the Force.  The shot changes to a slow zoom in on the temple and the Jedi texts.