BDawk_ASamuel Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 24 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: The great thing is that, they didnt. They lucked in that by default. They had no one else and were stuck with him as the option. I disagree. They took him in the second round and despite the lip-service we got from Howie and the front office that "he's just a backup and insurance" after the pick when everyone was freaking out, I think they were one foot out the door with Wentz after the 2019 season, they imploded in 2020, and they were done with Wentz after that. I'm not saying that was the plan all along, but it was definitely a contingency and not something they lucked into. They took an insurance policy in Hurts and they cashed it in with him. You don't just randomly take a QB in the second round when you have a QB on a $100 million contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsilverhair Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 3 hours ago, mikemack8 said: His times with @olsilverhair don't count? your life is a failure, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisceschica Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said: I disagree. They took him in the second round and despite the lip-service we got from Howie and the front office that "he's just a backup and insurance" after the pick when everyone was freaking out, I think they were one foot out the door with Wentz after the 2019 season, they imploded in 2020, and they were done with Wentz after that. I'm not saying that was the plan all along, but it was definitely a contingency and not something they lucked into. They took an insurance policy in Hurts and they cashed it in with him. This is bad re-writing history. Wentz was done with the eagles. He didn’t want to be here anymore. Adam schefter from end of December to about end of January continuously said the eagles were trying to convince him to stay and eventually they had to realize it was never gonna happen. It wasn’t just schefter either McManus, Berman and Gunn all said similar things. Furthermore in interviews they were asking coaches how they’d fix wentz from a couple of reports. They didn’t initially want to move on. They wanted to fix him but he checked out and no longer wanted to be here due to what went down. i had a theory at the time of the draft that the eagles did the move to have the cheap back up for 2 years and that’s when they could get out of Carson’s contract easier and the dead money was more reasonable so if Carson failed they’d have a QB in the wing waiting to take over that they liked and he’d be groomed at that point to take over and have "success”. But even that theory has holes poked in it as they tried to deal up for Zach Wilson, they were interested in Russ and Zach ertz’s agent correy straight up said ertz was in limbo based on them trying to make a deal for watson that might have included goedert. So the eagles whether we want to admit it were definitely involved in looking elsewhere (not just checking in on guys cause there’s reports from agents stating it was more) and basically got shutout. And then built up draft capital afterward in case hurts as the option failed to meet their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDawk_ASamuel Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: This is BS re-writing history. Wentz was done with the eagles. He didn’t want to be here anymore. Adam schefter from end of December to about end of January continuously said the eagles were trying to convince him to stay and eventually they had to realize it was never gonna happen. It wasn’t just schefter either McManus, Berman and Gunn all said similar things. Furthermore in interviews they were asking coaches how they’d fix wentz from a couple of reports. i had a theory at the time of the draft that the eagles did the move to have the cheap back up for 2 years and that’s when they could get out of Carson’s contract easier and the dead money was more reasonable so if Carson failed they’d have a QB in the wing waiting to take over that they liked. But even that theory has holes poked in it as they tried to deal up for Zach Wilson, they were interested in Russ and Zach ertz’s agent correy straight up said ertz was in limbo based on them trying to make a deal for watson that might have included goedert. So the eagles whether we want to admit it were definitely involved in looking elsewhere (not just checking in on guys cause there’s reports from agents stating it was more) and basically got shutout. And then built up draft capital afterward in case hurts as the option failed to meet their expectations. The point I was making was that it wasn't "luck" that got them to Hurts having the season he's having now and them being 12-1. It was always a chance that he would take over, even if it wasn't their number one plan. If they took a flyer on a guy in the 5th round and he turned into a stud, then yeah, that could be considered luck. But you don't spend a second rounder on a quarterback when you already have a guy under a $100+ million deal without having it in the back of your mind that "this guy may be a starter for us some day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn7980 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 52 minutes ago, RLC said: I'm still skeptical of giving Jalen 40M+ a year, because I'm not sure what he'll look like without superior talent around him. Ex: Reduce the OL effectiveness by 20%, downgrade WR2, etc because of less cap space. I think he'd still be solid, but he's not Mahomes/Manning/Brady who can elevate scrubs. That said, I 100% trust Jalen the person with the money. He's not going to freak out if we draft a QB in RD2 (see McNabb & Wentz). It is a team sport. Hurts needs the play makers to play well. The key WR players should stay intact for the next couple of seasons. They may even add some in the draft. OL may lose Kelce and Johnson next couple of seasons. The bench behind them is deep, and with the legend OL coach in place, the pipeline should be solid and not a huge drop of quality. The team should play at high level in the next several seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsilverhair Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I own this thread, just to let the new homos know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garingovt2000 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Just did a 2 round draft on PFF Pick 5 - Jalen Carter Traded Pick 31 and 63 for 34 and 44 Pick 34 - Christian Gonzales Pick 44 - Tyree Wilson Man that would be sweet. PFF seems to be down on Wilson more than most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said: The point I was making was that it wasn't "luck" that got them to Hurts having the season he's having now and them being 12-1. It was always a chance that he would take over, even if it wasn't their number one plan. If they took a flyer on a guy in the 5th round and he turned into a stud, then yeah, that could be considered luck. But you don't spend a second rounder on a quarterback when you already have a guy under a $100+ million deal without having it in the back of your mind that "this guy may be a starter for us some day". I think they drafted him cause carson couldn’t stay healthy along with they liked the potential upside of hurts. I don’t doubt the eagles thought hurts had upside to be a starter in the league. I’m sure part of their logic was we missed out on Russ in the past so if we like a Qb that we should take him especially since Carson missed games a lot in his career. Frankly i think they believed if wentz turned it back around in 2021, stayed relatively healthy and was the starter going forward that eventually they could recoup the draft pick (and then some) of hurts in a trade. especially if he showed improvement in games that Carson mostly likely missed time. if the eagles believed hurts could be an MVP type QB i don’t think they remotely would’ve tried to deal up for Zack Wilson, try to trade for Russ or be as involved as ertz’s agent alluded to for watson. I think they liked hurts but they still didn’t think Hurts have as high of a ceiling compared to those guys based off their scouting. otherwise they wouldn’t have tried to get them over hurts and just rolled with hurts from the start. And i don’t believe for a second it was just due diligence. Cause i also believe the accumulation of picks was to be in position to make that type of splash and then when they couldn’t pull it off it became if hurts didn’t succeed they’d have picks to eventually get the QB Don’t get me wrong i think some of it is putting yourself on a position with a plan and good scouting. I also think there’s some luck involved in it as well. Because if Russ wanted to be here there’s a damn good chance he’s here right now and we aren’t in the position we are. I’d hurts is in seattle and Russ is here if that deal went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said: I disagree. They took him in the second round and despite the lip-service we got from Howie and the front office that "he's just a backup and insurance" after the pick when everyone was freaking out, I think they were one foot out the door with Wentz after the 2019 season, they imploded in 2020, and they were done with Wentz after that. I'm not saying that was the plan all along, but it was definitely a contingency and not something they lucked into. They took an insurance policy in Hurts and they cashed it in with him. You don't just randomly take a QB in the second round when you have a QB on a $100 million contract. Why one foot out the door with Wentz after 2019? The were with him, till he demanded a trade. Then they were left with no one but the guy they drafted as a career backup. In reality, they werent willing to continue spending big on a backup QB. But they value the position so they drafted one high to ensure they continued having a really good one. They had JUST given Wentz a big contract. He had JUST had his historic season of carrying an offense as much as any QB ever could with horrible "weapons". They were fully committed, and Hurts was going to be the long term backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglePhan1986 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 12 minutes ago, olsilverhair said: I own this thread, just to let the new homos know Easy on the hate speech. You’ll get reported. Mod6 has enough on his plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 25 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said: I disagree. They took him in the second round and despite the lip-service we got from Howie and the front office that "he's just a backup and insurance" after the pick when everyone was freaking out, I think they were one foot out the door with Wentz after the 2019 season, they imploded in 2020, and they were done with Wentz after that. I'm not saying that was the plan all along, but it was definitely a contingency and not something they lucked into. They took an insurance policy in Hurts and they cashed it in with him. You don't just randomly take a QB in the second round when you have a QB on a $100 million contract. I think it is luck because if Clayton Thorson showed he was capable of holding a clipboard correctly there's no chance we are taking another QB a year later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting4Someday Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said: Just did a 2 round draft on PFF Pick 5 - Jalen Carter Traded Pick 31 and 63 for 34 and 44 Pick 34 - Christian Gonzales Pick 44 - Tyree Wilson Man that would be sweet. PFF seems to be down on Wilson more than most PFF has Wilson ranked like #10, but I think the mock machine logic is based on what the users have done up to this point. Very weird. I pick Verse at 31, and even though they have him ranked 20 - they give me a D+... what? Nice draft btw - overall they seem down on the CBs... I expect a run in the teens, they seem to think it will happen in the 20s or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said: I think it is luck because if Clayton Thorson showed he was capable of holding a clipboard correctly there's no chance we are taking another QB a year later I’m curious to see how it all plays out if sudfeld was given the reigns for the 2018 playoffs… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting4Someday Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said: I think it is luck because if Clayton Thorson showed he was capable of holding a clipboard correctly there's no chance we are taking another QB a year later True - I think the urgency for a quality backup was about Wentz's body breaking down rather then his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: Why one foot out the door with Wentz after 2019? The were with him, till he demanded a trade. Then they were left with no one but the guy they drafted as a career backup. In reality, they werent willing to continue spending big on a backup QB. But they value the position so they drafted one high to ensure they continued having a really good one. They had JUST given Wentz a big contract. He had JUST had his historic season of carrying an offense as much as any QB ever could with horrible "weapons". They were fully committed, and Hurts was going to be the long term backup. Just my personal belief they drafted him to be the backup that had potential to be a solid starter knowing wentz missed time in his first couple seasons. I think they also believed if he reached his potential in grooming him that he could be a starter in the league. so that after year 3 of hurts’ contract, if wentz played like he did at the end of 2019 then they could deal Hurts and get their pick back. plus they got the value of him being a cheap backup for 3 years. i do think they liked him enough that his ceiling was higher than just a backup and they’d get the value back in that pick but via a trade (i think at the end of 2019 they still believed in wentz but wanted protection against injury and with a potential out in 2 years if he wasn’t as good as end of 2019 they’d have Qb they liked and groomed). They used the whole we missed out on Russ years ago, was a cheap backup and wentz’s injury history to justify making the selection. when wentz said I’m out then they tried to put themselves in position to make a big splash at Qb. That big splash failed. and then went with hurts but had the security of picks that if he failed they’d be in position still to make a big splash at Qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazletonEagle Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: Just my personal belief they drafted him to be the backup that had potential to be a solid starter knowing wentz missed a lot of time. I think they also believed if he reached his potential in grooming him that he could be a starter in the league. so that after year 3 of hurts’ contract, if wentz played like he did at the end of 2019 then they could deal Hurts and get their pick back. plus they got the value of him being a cheap backup for 3 years. i do think they liked him enough that his ceiling was higher than just a backup and they’d get the value back in that pick but via a trade (i think at the end of 2019 they still believed in wentz but wanted protection against injury and with a potential out in 2 years if he wasn’t as good as end of 2019 they’d have Qb they liked and groomed). They used the whole we missed out on Russ years ago, was a cheap backup and wentz’s injury history to justify making the selection. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglePhan1986 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: Just my personal belief they drafted him to be the backup that had potential to be a solid starter knowing wentz missed time in his first couple seasons. I think they also believed if he reached his potential in grooming him that he could be a starter in the league. so that after year 3 of hurts’ contract, if wentz played like he did at the end of 2019 then they could deal Hurts and get their pick back. plus they got the value of him being a cheap backup for 3 years. i do think they liked him enough that his ceiling was higher than just a backup and they’d get the value back in that pick but via a trade (i think at the end of 2019 they still believed in wentz but wanted protection against injury and with a potential out in 2 years if he wasn’t as good as end of 2019 they’d have Qb they liked and groomed). They used the whole we missed out on Russ years ago, was a cheap backup and wentz’s injury history to justify making the selection. Agreed. I’m convinced he was a Doug Pederson pick. Howie gave him one after I’m sure they disagreed on Reagor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 59 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said: The great thing is that, they didnt. They lucked in that by default. They had no one else and were stuck with him as the option. Betting on him as a second round pick is what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLC Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Just now, ManuManu said: Betting on him as a second round pick is what I meant. There was no "luck" with Jalen Hurts. They took him ahead of consensus. Getting lucky is Nakobe Dean falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 19 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said: I think it is luck because if Clayton Thorson showed he was capable of holding a clipboard correctly there's no chance we are taking another QB a year later You must have listened to todays BwF podcast. It was a pretty good discussion about Hurts and buying into his intangibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said: Agreed. I’m convinced he was a Doug Pederson pick. Howie gave him one after I’m sure they disagreed on Reagor Idk who’s pick it was but I’m guessing regardless lurie had to sign off on them doing it. the two parts where i think we are the most fortunate is wentz wanting out as bad as he did and no changing his mind. Cause we got better value then we should’ve gotten with how he’s played since being dealt. Second that jets really wanted Wilson, russ and watson didn’t want to come here. Cause if anyone of those changes we likely are in a different position right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Just now, ManuManu said: You must have listened to todays BwF podcast. It was a pretty good discussion about Hurts and buying into his intangibles. I heard it last night but it wasn't anything new really in regards to the Thorson angle. From the moment they drafted Hurts you could connect the dots that they made the move large in part to burning a 4th round pick the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 33 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: This is bad re-writing history. Wentz was done with the eagles. He didn’t want to be here anymore. Adam schefter from end of December to about end of January continuously said the eagles were trying to convince him to stay and eventually they had to realize it was never gonna happen. It wasn’t just schefter either McManus, Berman and Gunn all said similar things. Furthermore in interviews they were asking coaches how they’d fix wentz from a couple of reports. They didn’t initially want to move on. They wanted to fix him but he checked out and no longer wanted to be here due to what went down. i had a theory at the time of the draft that the eagles did the move to have the cheap back up for 2 years and that’s when they could get out of Carson’s contract easier and the dead money was more reasonable so if Carson failed they’d have a QB in the wing waiting to take over that they liked and he’d be groomed at that point to take over and have "success”. But even that theory has holes poked in it as they tried to deal up for Zach Wilson, they were interested in Russ and Zach ertz’s agent correy straight up said ertz was in limbo based on them trying to make a deal for watson that might have included goedert. So the eagles whether we want to admit it were definitely involved in looking elsewhere (not just checking in on guys cause there’s reports from agents stating it was more) and basically got shutout. And then built up draft capital afterward in case hurts as the option failed to meet their expectations. This, I don't think anyone in the eagles FO ever thought Hurts would be an MVP candidate in his 3rd rookie season 😉 and leading the eagles to a 12-1 record. The plan from the beginning always seemed half baked, Lurie was obsessed with turning backup qbs over for higher capital than they were drafted. That all fell apart though when Wentz fell on his face then whined his way out. I remember reports when Sirianni was hired saying he took the job expecting Wentz was his starting QB, hurts doing what he's doing now wasnt in any bodies wildest plans and the eagles FO made multiple moves that you mention showing they weren't all in on hurts. All off-season every one was talking about how high of a pick Howie could get and which top end college QB they would take with that pick and that was widely acceptable thought in the media and among fans, i can't think of anybody even RTK who was talking MVP and how much of a discount Hurts would give the team on an extension. It's been an uncanny turn around, a surprisingly pleasant one at that. I think and I'm sure a lot do that the sky is the limit for hurts, that's a huge leap from career backup gadget guy the day he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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